tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post549160354216087507..comments2023-10-19T08:52:22.706-05:00Comments on Betty & Bimbo: A Blog: and finally!Betty and Bimbohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15796988263388732567noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-80927137322401054082007-03-10T15:39:00.000-05:002007-03-10T15:39:00.000-05:00If it were a stand-alone measure, I probably would...If it were a stand-alone measure, I probably would not have gone out to vote on it. But as it was on the ballot in November along with our midterm elections, I had no desire to duck the question. I think you're ignoring the personal nature of these kinds of initiatives: they're not just about protesting Bush, they're about determining the voice of the place where you live. As a resident, this Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-82529716596740567392007-03-10T11:27:00.000-05:002007-03-10T11:27:00.000-05:00Nancy D., it's not totally off topic to talk about...Nancy D., it's not totally off topic to talk about denouncing the government since I think what you're failing to see is that this vote is an opportunity to do just that - and that going out to vote against it, or criticizing the people in Vermont, is like saying it's silly to denounce the government in such an official way. I'm sure the people behind these movements are not stupid and understandBetty and Bimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15796988263388732567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-81116184269448209322007-03-10T00:11:00.000-05:002007-03-10T00:11:00.000-05:00No one ever claimed people don't have a right to d...No one ever claimed people don't have a right to denounce the government, that's totally off topic. I just don't think calls for impeachment from local governments is an effective use of resources And Clinton WAS impeached (they didn't try, they did it), and we see how that went...total waste of time, whether you were for or against it.<BR/><BR/>If there were a legitimate nationwide movement toNancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-40206332540604152032007-03-09T21:06:00.000-05:002007-03-09T21:06:00.000-05:00I'm totally late on this one but think that anonym...I'm totally late on this one but think that anonymous sums it up fairly well,<BR/><BR/>NO PREZ HAVE THE MANDATE (democratic or moral) TO LIE.<BR/><BR/>Bush & Cheney (and their advisers) lied. And it's costing the US and -by default- the world, many pennies and lives.<BR/><BR/>Soooooo, is he swindling the world?<BR/><BR/>Of course. And he knows it. Because he did it.<BR/><BR/>If "the people" don'tMontserrat Nicoláshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17824806628375936633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-82466106566317071522007-03-09T17:56:00.000-05:002007-03-09T17:56:00.000-05:00they tried to impeach clinton for way lesser offen...they tried to impeach clinton for way lesser offenses than crimes and misdemeanors<BR/>i think taking the country to war on false pretenses qualifiesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-31068075565020207722007-03-09T15:40:00.000-05:002007-03-09T15:40:00.000-05:00finally some real heat! as opposed to the oscars, ...finally some real heat! as opposed to the oscars, whose gold left me cold.<BR/>let me see if i can get people to bark at me again.<BR/><BR/>the rhetoric of the right is based on fear. fear of the foreign "other," of course, but also fear of the much scarier other within--fear this is, of acknowledging the other as an other, and consensus as a fiction. hence the rightful rhetoric's power.<BR/><BR/venus (en el pudridero)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05176432291850230114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-91448375167968959942007-03-09T14:01:00.000-05:002007-03-09T14:01:00.000-05:00Yes, let's have others weigh in. I have a hard ti...Yes, let's have others weigh in. I have a hard time believing people interpret these votes the way you do, assuming 30 percent are Bush supporters. Especially if you look at the demographics of San Francisco, where I doubt there are 30 percent registered Republicans.Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-40969083653325933782007-03-09T13:56:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:56:00.000-05:00Maybe we're going around in circles. I wonder what...Maybe we're going around in circles. I wonder what others think. <BR/><BR/>I don't think these things are so significant or important, but I certainly wouldn't pass up the opportunity to make a symbolic statement against Bush, is all I'm saying. And when I hear that 70% of SFers voted in favor of impeaching Bush, I'm glad, and I assume the other 30% - who cared enough to go out and vote against Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-10337215440065912792007-03-09T13:50:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:50:00.000-05:00What about all the other evidence that will be ava...What about all the other evidence that will be available to historians (though I don't know why you are so concerned about historians) such as opinion polls highly critical of Bush and the midterm elections? I don't think these silly impeachment votes have the significance you think they do.Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-28771049148320844182007-03-09T13:44:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:44:00.000-05:00Right, but your vote, which contributed to the oth...Right, but your vote, which contributed to the other 30%, will be seen that way. In other words, your vote will be counted when analysts look at how was Bush seen? 100 years from now. <BR/><BR/>I just don't see why the people who voted for it are deserving of criticism, scorn, or votes that will inevitably be read as pro-Bush (even if that's not your intention) when you agree that these things Betty and Bimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15796988263388732567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-47726005169372789692007-03-09T13:43:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:43:00.000-05:00Plus, I didn't want to "refrain from the debate." ...Plus, I didn't want to "refrain from the debate." My whole point is that I don't support these measures and I WANTED to vote against it.Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-47409078970292481882007-03-09T13:41:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:41:00.000-05:00And I strongly object to the statement that "there...And I strongly object to the statement that "there's no other way to read that vote when the media, politicians, and history look at the numbers" other than support for Bush and his policies. I think you are taking too narrow a view for this. People can distinguish between support for policies and support for impeachment.Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-229731206485362762007-03-09T13:40:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:40:00.000-05:00The measure passed by 70 percent; I don't think it...The measure passed by 70 percent; I don't think it could be taken a sign of approval for Bush.Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-3471214969497496632007-03-09T13:38:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:38:00.000-05:00No, I don't think it contributes to polarization, ...No, I don't think it contributes to polarization, if as you say more and more people are fed up with the Bush administration. I think most people see these movements as the symbolic statements of collective disapproval that they are. <BR/><BR/>And you could certainly refrain from the debate by not voting on that particular issue. But unfortunately, the vote you cast (against calling for Betty and Bimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15796988263388732567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-47597513134030619672007-03-09T13:31:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:31:00.000-05:00But if we agree that calls for impeachment are not...But if we agree that calls for impeachment are not going to result in impeachment and that they are combative and confrontational (giving that you're calling for the president to be fired), doesn't this just contribute to the polarization we are all so worried about in this country? If you don't want impeachment to happen and don't think it will happen, why alienate people who may be your alliesNancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-20292737187954789262007-03-09T13:17:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:17:00.000-05:00Nancy D., I think you're taking this far too liter...Nancy D., I think you're taking this far too literally. <BR/><BR/>This is an opportunity to make a public declaration, with thousands of others against Bush's many offenses, some of which, like torture, that you agree to be impeachable offenses. I think this is the kind of situation where you have to be able to hold a contradiction in your head to make the best choice, you know? I think this is aBetty and Bimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15796988263388732567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-91865466283795264692007-03-09T13:00:00.000-05:002007-03-09T13:00:00.000-05:00I see where you're coming from. But the ballot qu...I see where you're coming from. But the ballot question didn't ask, are you against the war, do you oppose Bush administration policy, or anything else. It asked if the city of San Francisco should call for impeachment, and I don't think it should.Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-38615166566071067002007-03-09T12:56:00.000-05:002007-03-09T12:56:00.000-05:00Nancy D.,I, like you, do not agree that impeachmen...Nancy D.,<BR/><BR/>I, like you, do not agree that impeachment will ever happen, but I fail to see why you would not vote for impeachment or support people who do.<BR/><BR/>As I said above: "This is a way of organizing that is more effective that signing petitions or holding a sign, in fact. Perhaps the people doing it understand the limits they're up against, but they're still bringing to light Betty and Bimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15796988263388732567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-49292079125215901382007-03-09T12:51:00.001-05:002007-03-09T12:51:00.001-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-1534464576395741702007-03-09T12:51:00.000-05:002007-03-09T12:51:00.000-05:00Betty & Bimbo: when you say:"Nancy D., what would ...Betty & Bimbo: when you say:<BR/><BR/>"Nancy D., what would you rather citizens who recognize their president to be a law-shunning, imperialistic cowboy who is making them and their children less safe from both attacks, wars, misinformation and climate change do?"<BR/><BR/>I really don't understand where you're going with that. We may not like Bush, but he was elected (in the last election at Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-70234848615892330452007-03-09T12:48:00.000-05:002007-03-09T12:48:00.000-05:00Nancy D.,Your argument doesn't make sense to me. I...Nancy D.,<BR/><BR/>Your argument doesn't make sense to me. I understand that you think impeaching the president is not a good idea, but since you ALSO think it won't ever happen, why not vote for it? <BR/><BR/>I think that it is a good, effective, tangible form of symbolic protest, because the more of these resolutions that pass, the more Bush, the media, and future generations will be able to Betty and Bimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15796988263388732567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-38840886518831762812007-03-09T12:36:00.000-05:002007-03-09T12:36:00.000-05:00Well, this article doesn't say what they consider ...Well, this article doesn't say what they consider the grounds of impeachment, but bear in mind that once impeachment proceedings go through, the president is tried on the floor of the Senate for "high crimes and misdemeanors." Tax cuts, the war, and poor foreign policy don't cut it. Torture might, and in a perfect world I might say that Bush should be impeached for his use of torture. But I Nancy D., Girl Detectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10463086935236039905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-31753668484896349832007-03-09T10:51:00.000-05:002007-03-09T10:51:00.000-05:00I guess I'd rather end the war and have bush still...I guess I'd rather end the war and have bush still in office than impeach him and still have Iraqis and Americans dying.Koko the Clownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08854580545005006492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-52350866583583720042007-03-09T08:45:00.000-05:002007-03-09T08:45:00.000-05:00impeachment procedures can actually start in state...impeachment procedures can actually start in state legislatures, who have the right to introduce measures to the federal congress. <BR/><BR/>besides the mechanics, you must remember that impeachment unto itself should be seen first as a measure of protest. it's been precisely the left's idea of protest as pointless what has driven this country to its current situation. sadly, by abandoning venus (en el pudridero)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05176432291850230114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22603536.post-67343775511058230292007-03-09T08:18:00.000-05:002007-03-09T08:18:00.000-05:00Maine has a similar movement underway: http://www....Maine has a similar movement underway: http://www.timesrecord.com/website/main.nsf/news.nsf/0/81F741F283ED616C05257295005D022D?OpendocumentBetty and Bimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15796988263388732567noreply@blogger.com